Re: Ode to Comrade Bill

[ Zaragoza High School Alumni ~ Toro Talk ]

Posted by Rico on December 14, 1998 at 12:15:35:

In Reply to: Re: Ode to Comrade Bill posted by Bill McKay on December 14, 1998 at 00:25:07:


Bill-such anger! You're so sensitive. Don't take any of this personally. It's pretty extreme calling me a fascist because I maintain my 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

You say my analysis is extemely faulty. You also say that the biggest bunch of crap you've heard in a long time is my view that armed citizenry maintains our freedom?

Seems that the heavy dose of disinformation you've received from the government-media complex and the government schools has caused you to forget your history and constitutional heritage.

The average gun-control fanatic will tell you the Second Amendment was only intended to protect the right to bear arms in the context of the need for defense of the state and nation. This argument could only be made by someone with complete disconnect from reality --someone who chooses willingly and deliberately to ignore the massive amount of documentation to the contrary.

Why don't we ask our founders what the original intent was regarding firearms? Here's a sampling of their unambiguous opinions. Your statement is listed last for comparitive purposes.

James Madison: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A regulated
Militia, composed of the people trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free
country."

Samuel Adams: "And that the said Constitution be
never construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are
peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

Thomas Paine: "Arms discourage and keep the
invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property ... horrid
mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

George Mason: "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public
officials."

George Washington: "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the
people's liberty teeth. A free people ought to be armed. When firearms go, all goes. We need
them every hour."

Thomas Jefferson: "No free man shall ever be
debarred the use of arms. ... The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for,
concerning the people at large, is that they be
properly armed."

BILL MCKAY: "I do believe that they (arms) should only be in the hands of the police and the
military."

Many of these great men warned with equal passion against the government arming itself by
creating what they feared would be a standing army or national police force. Consider the
following:

Elbridge Gerry: "What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."

Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in
almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops than can be, on any pretense, raise in the United States."

Tench Coxe: "The power of the sword is in the hands of Congress? My friends and countrymen, it is not so; for the powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The Militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the Militia? Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the Federal or State governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

It seems to me Bill that your views would be better received in France or someplace. When
you consider the letter of our Constitution, and then consider its spirit through the words of the
men responsible for authoring it, there is no question about the individual's right to bear arms.

You say I spew out facts. Sorry, didn't mean to spew. Just trying to engage everyone in rational discussion. I love debating liberals but don't have a coranary. Yeah, I know, you say you're a Republican. But amigo, your views are as liberal as I've seen. That's cool with me but most Liberals I know are proud to be identified as such. Come out of the closet, Bill.

You commented that "The incidences of death caused by accidental shooting or intentional killing by citizen owned guns far exceed the incidences of their being successfully used for protection."
I'd be interested to know what your factual references are.

Regarding y2k, I never said with certainty that these major problems were going to happen. I
said that there are many indicators that we're going to have big problems and that it makes
good sense to research the issues and be prepared.

P.S. Try telling Clinton that "A system of laws maintains our freedom and democracy."

P.S.S. I stand corrected on the New Zealand immigration issue. "Now go take on the day."

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